While writing the post yesterday about testing regular expressions, I realized that this problem is not really specific to regular expressions. I got a very good comment noting that testing any place that uses some kind of DSL is definitely prudent. SQL is another example.
But these examples are both about actually testing the usage of them, and the problem becomes that you have two languages, but you're mostly only testing the code written in the outer language. This is due to several reasons. One of the most obvious ones is that our tools really doesn't make it that easy to do.
Thinking about these issues made me start thinking about how we generally test languages. Having worked on several language implementations and worked on both new languages, and implementations of existing languages, I've come to the conclusion that the whole area of testing languages are actually quite complicated, and also there are no real best practices for doing it.
First, there is a problem of terminology. Many implementations of languages that are really executable specifications of how the language should work. What's the difference? Well, testing the language according to such a spec, you are really only doing functional, black-box testing. I've looked at several of the open source language implementations, and I don't really see much usage of anything else than such language spec tests. This means basically that some parts of the implementation can be implemented wrongly, and by some freak chance it still works correctly in all the cases you have tests for, but it might fail in other ways.
Unit tests for the actual implementation would help with this - it helps since you will be doing TDD on the unit level, it helps because you make a conscious decision about the implementation and what it should be doing in these cases. It still doesn't make everything clear cut and simple, but it absolutely would help. So why don't most implementations do unit testing of the internals? I don't really know. Maybe it's because implementations can be extremely complicated. But that should be a reason for testing more, not testing less. One reason I feel a bit about is that it makes larger changes quite hard. Large refactorings are one of the ways JRuby has used to get incredible performance improvements and new subsystems, but unit tests can sometimes act as inertia for these.
I'm totally disregarding the academic approaches here. Yeah, in soem cases for simple languages, you can actually prove that it does what you want it to do, and for small enough implementations using a suitable language, you can actually prove the same things about the implementation. The problem is that this approach doesn't scale.
And since a language almost always is turing complete, that means that you can't exhaustively test it. There is no way of testing all permutations - either manually or automatically. So what should a language spec do? The first thing that many languages do are to specify that whole areas of functionality result in undefined behavior. That makes it easier. But the real problems exist when you start combining different features which can interact in different ways.
At the end of the day, I have no idea how to actually do this well. I would like to know though - how should I test the implementation, and how should I write an executable language specification? And these questions doesn't even touch on the question of testing the core libraries. Many of the some problems apply, but it gets even more complicated.
But these examples are both about actually testing the usage of them, and the problem becomes that you have two languages, but you're mostly only testing the code written in the outer language. This is due to several reasons. One of the most obvious ones is that our tools really doesn't make it that easy to do.
Thinking about these issues made me start thinking about how we generally test languages. Having worked on several language implementations and worked on both new languages, and implementations of existing languages, I've come to the conclusion that the whole area of testing languages are actually quite complicated, and also there are no real best practices for doing it.
First, there is a problem of terminology. Many implementations of languages that are really executable specifications of how the language should work. What's the difference? Well, testing the language according to such a spec, you are really only doing functional, black-box testing. I've looked at several of the open source language implementations, and I don't really see much usage of anything else than such language spec tests. This means basically that some parts of the implementation can be implemented wrongly, and by some freak chance it still works correctly in all the cases you have tests for, but it might fail in other ways.
Unit tests for the actual implementation would help with this - it helps since you will be doing TDD on the unit level, it helps because you make a conscious decision about the implementation and what it should be doing in these cases. It still doesn't make everything clear cut and simple, but it absolutely would help. So why don't most implementations do unit testing of the internals? I don't really know. Maybe it's because implementations can be extremely complicated. But that should be a reason for testing more, not testing less. One reason I feel a bit about is that it makes larger changes quite hard. Large refactorings are one of the ways JRuby has used to get incredible performance improvements and new subsystems, but unit tests can sometimes act as inertia for these.
I'm totally disregarding the academic approaches here. Yeah, in soem cases for simple languages, you can actually prove that it does what you want it to do, and for small enough implementations using a suitable language, you can actually prove the same things about the implementation. The problem is that this approach doesn't scale.
And since a language almost always is turing complete, that means that you can't exhaustively test it. There is no way of testing all permutations - either manually or automatically. So what should a language spec do? The first thing that many languages do are to specify that whole areas of functionality result in undefined behavior. That makes it easier. But the real problems exist when you start combining different features which can interact in different ways.
At the end of the day, I have no idea how to actually do this well. I would like to know though - how should I test the implementation, and how should I write an executable language specification? And these questions doesn't even touch on the question of testing the core libraries. Many of the some problems apply, but it gets even more complicated.